Gdtyjr

What sort of fish is this

What is the generally accepted pronunciation of “topoi”?

Why does Central Limit Theorem break down in my simulation?

Under what conditions can the right to remain silent be revoked in the USA?

For which categories of spectra is there an explicit description of the fibrant objects via lifting properties?

Expressing logarithmic equations without logs

How do electrons receive energy when a body is heated?

How do I print a field from the bibliography

What is Tony Stark injecting into himself in Iron Man 3?

Should I take out a loan for a friend to invest on my behalf?

Why does cron require MTA for logging?

Recommendation letter by significant other if you worked with them professionally?

What's the 'present simple' form of the word "нашла́" in 3rd person singular female?

What do you call someone who likes to pick fights?

The meaning of ‘otherwise’

PTIJ: Why does only a Shor Tam ask at the Seder, and not a Shor Mu'ad?

MySQL importing CSV files really slow

ER diagram relationship node size adjustment

How do we create new idioms and use them in a novel?

This Alpine town?

Does Christianity allow for believing on someone else's behalf?

Signed and unsigned numbers

Why is gcc not showing a warning message for using $ in a variable name?

Are small insurances worth it?

Shifting between bemols and diesis in the key signature

How can I easily translate between a key and a key signature?What is a key signature?How to determine what key changes are appropriate?Diminished and augmented key signatureWhy do we have key signatures as they are? Could a key with unconventional accidentals make sense?Why is the key signature not the same as the listed key?Theory vs PracticeAre all modes/scales in a given key signature perceived as equally bright/dark?How to easily transpose sheet music?Does the ability of reading and writing music on staff help with learning music fundamentals?

3

I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.

I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).

I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?

theory key key-signatures

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Zacky

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
  
  – Todd Wilcox
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
  
  – Zacky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
  
  – Todd Wilcox
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
  
  – Zacky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.

I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).

I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?

theory key key-signatures

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Zacky

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  For those of us who only know English, I wonder if it would help to explain what a "bemol" and what a "diesi" is.
  
  – Todd Wilcox
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A bemol is the symbol that tell us that we have to decrease the note by a semi-tone, whereas a diesis increases a note by a semi-tone.
  
  – Zacky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  So that’s just “flat” and “sharp”, respectively?
  
  – Todd Wilcox
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)
  
  – Zacky
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

I am a beginner in music with little knowledge, but like once in a month spend a little time playing with a digital keyboard.

I noticed that if I have some notes of a song which got 4# in the beginning of the stave, I can play the song like there is 3♭ instead. The same happens if I have 4 bemols (flats) then I can play the song like it has 3 diesis (sharps) (yes, it will sound a bit higher, but not that different).

I was curious if other combinations exists, let's say we have a song in 2 bemols (flats), what is the equivalence of it in diesis (sharps)? I couldn't find it myself. Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can learn more?

theory key key-signatures

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Zacky

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Zacky

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 1 hour ago

Zacky

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

New contributor

Zacky is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 3 hours ago

ZackyZacky

1164

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

6

I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.

In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.

So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.

You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.

This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!

Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.

Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
  
  – Zacky
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  +1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

Your Answer

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);

Zacky is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

draft saved

draft discarded

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f81246%2fshifting-between-bemols-and-diesis-in-the-key-signature%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

6

I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.

In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.

So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.

You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.

This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!

Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.

Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
  
  – Zacky
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  +1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

6

I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.

In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.

So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.

You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.

This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!

Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.

Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Thank you! Give me a little time to digest it because I am using Do-Re-Mi-Fa system not C-D-E one so I need to corellate, but I will come back later.
  
  – Zacky
  3 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Zacky You will need to swap C for Do, D for Re, etc but otherwise the answer should work.
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  +1. Usual thorough answer! It's just mathematical serendipty, but useful. I often used to start a song in Eb and modulate to E by 'changing the key sig.'. Same with Ab and A. They seem to be the simplest 'mod-7'.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @badjohn - I suspect Zacky's using 'fixed do', which can get rather messy in this situation. Moveable do works just fine, though.
  
  – Tim
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Tim In the fixed do system, can't we just regard do as a translation of C, re or D etc. If I read "mi bémol majeur" in French, I just think "E♭ major". For example: fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonie_n%C2%BA_3_(Beethoven).
  
  – badjohn
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 6 more comments

I'm not aware of a name for this phenomenon, it's just a quick way to transpose music based on how the tonal system works out.

In short, when you're in a key, look at the key signature. Take the number of accidentals in the key and replace them with the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type and you're left with a key built a half step away from the original tonic.

So you're in E major with 4 sharps. Let's take the mod-7 complement of the other accidental type: 7-4=3, so we're left with 3 flats, which is E♭ major, one half step away from the original tonic of E.

You're now asking about 2 flats in the key signature; this is B♭ major. 7-2=5, so a key of 5 sharps will be B major.

This trick is especially fun in C, which has 0 sharps or flats. The mod-7 complement of 0 is 7, so if we have 7 sharps in the key signature, we're in C♯ major; 7 flats makes it C♭ major!

Note that this trick isn't exclusive to major; it works for minor keys as well.

Lastly, know that this works perfectly until you encounter accidentals in the music; you'll have to have a more contextual understanding of those accidentals to know how they should be interpreted in your new key.

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183

answered 3 hours ago

RichardRichard

42.6k695183