Can stored/leased 737s be used to substitute for grounded MAXs? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)What winglet airfoils are used on the Boeing B737?Can the parking brake be set on an 737-800 if the aircraft has no power?Where can I find (online) manuals for refueling A320/B737 for a given destination?How can I calculate the glide time for a B737 with engine failure?Why has Boeing used mini winglets on the 737-200?Why aren't 737s or A320s commonly used for transatlantic flights?Is the callout “minimums” on the 737 used to describe DH on precision approachesWhere are the grounded 737 Max planes being kept?Why are there 40 737 Max planes in flight when they have been grounded as not airworthy?Why can’t more older 737s be retrofitted with more newer winglets?

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Can stored/leased 737s be used to substitute for grounded MAXs?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)What winglet airfoils are used on the Boeing B737?Can the parking brake be set on an 737-800 if the aircraft has no power?Where can I find (online) manuals for refueling A320/B737 for a given destination?How can I calculate the glide time for a B737 with engine failure?Why has Boeing used mini winglets on the 737-200?Why aren't 737s or A320s commonly used for transatlantic flights?Is the callout “minimums” on the 737 used to describe DH on precision approachesWhere are the grounded 737 Max planes being kept?Why are there 40 737 Max planes in flight when they have been grounded as not airworthy?Why can’t more older 737s be retrofitted with more newer winglets?










2












$begingroup$


The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2


      1



      $begingroup$


      The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$




      The 737 MAX was introduced relatively recently. I would have assumed they were replacing at least some older 737 models in operation with the major airlines that took them (eg Southwest, American, United, in the US). Did those airlines immediately sell off their older planes as the new ones joined their fleet? I see reports of huge flight cancellations from lack of the new aircraft. Since they have common type ratings with the earlier 737, what happened to the older planes that none of them can be pulled from storage or dry leased and put back into service? Surely this grounding is long enough to be worth the transient expense?







      boeing-737 fleet






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 16 mins ago









      ymb1

      70.9k7227378




      70.9k7227378






      New contributor




      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 14 hours ago









      Phil MillerPhil Miller

      1136




      1136




      New contributor




      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Phil Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          9












          $begingroup$

          It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).



          Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
            $endgroup$
            – user189035
            1 hour ago



















          4












          $begingroup$

          The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.



          Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).



          While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
            $endgroup$
            – Phil Miller
            11 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
            $endgroup$
            – Ron Beyer
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
            $endgroup$
            – T.J. Crowder
            18 mins ago












          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          9












          $begingroup$

          It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).



          Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
            $endgroup$
            – user189035
            1 hour ago
















          9












          $begingroup$

          It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).



          Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
            $endgroup$
            – user189035
            1 hour ago














          9












          9








          9





          $begingroup$

          It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).



          Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          It really isn't 1 new aircraft = 1 mothballed aircraft. Most of the 737 MAX aircraft were fleet expansions (for US carriers). The older aircraft get retired when they aren't economical to fly anymore, and even then a retired aircraft is often sold either to a scrap yard or to a lower budget operator. In order to bring an aircraft back into service they may have to go through C or D checks before they can be considered airworthy again (because old aircraft are often retired at a D-Check when it needs a major check).



          Airlines need to schedule C/D checks out months in advance, each aircraft costing millions to go through the check and a month or more of downtime. There is only limited space available to do these checks, so even if they wanted to bring 10 aircraft back into service, it may take 6 months and cost $20-40 million. It's cheaper to cancel the flights.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 12 hours ago









          Ron BeyerRon Beyer

          22.8k285107




          22.8k285107











          • $begingroup$
            It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
            $endgroup$
            – user189035
            1 hour ago

















          • $begingroup$
            It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
            $endgroup$
            – user189035
            1 hour ago
















          $begingroup$
          It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
          $endgroup$
          – user189035
          1 hour ago





          $begingroup$
          It's cheaper for the airline to cancel the flights because to a first approximation all other rival airlines would undergo the same cost. Therefore each affected airline can charge the passenger (you can charge to the extend that your rivals do without worries).
          $endgroup$
          – user189035
          1 hour ago












          4












          $begingroup$

          The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.



          Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).



          While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
            $endgroup$
            – Phil Miller
            11 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
            $endgroup$
            – Ron Beyer
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
            $endgroup$
            – T.J. Crowder
            18 mins ago
















          4












          $begingroup$

          The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.



          Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).



          While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
            $endgroup$
            – Phil Miller
            11 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
            $endgroup$
            – Ron Beyer
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
            $endgroup$
            – T.J. Crowder
            18 mins ago














          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.



          Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).



          While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          The main problem is in the United States, the 737 Classics are banned beginning December 2017, due to fuel tank interting requirements. In particular, Southwest's Classic replacement schedule was driven by this, their last flight was in October 2017. They have a number of parked Classics, but they can't be operated in the US. On the other hand, the 737NG is new enough that there isn't a significant excess fleet.



          Due to the TWA Flight 800 explosion, FAA required retrofit of fuel tank inerting on most aircraft with center tanks. This system purges some center tank oxygen with nitrogen, in order to reduce the risk of explosion if there's a spark. EASA did not require retrofit, and the MD-80 is exempt (no heat sources by its tank).



          While a retrofit was developed for the 737 Classic, the cost of the system, coupled with the age of the aircraft, and the 737 skin issues, meant that all the big US carriers chose to retire remaining 737 Classics as of the deadline, rather than retrofit.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 11 hours ago

























          answered 11 hours ago









          user71659user71659

          3,9051026




          3,9051026











          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
            $endgroup$
            – Phil Miller
            11 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
            $endgroup$
            – Ron Beyer
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
            $endgroup$
            – T.J. Crowder
            18 mins ago

















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
            $endgroup$
            – Phil Miller
            11 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
            $endgroup$
            – Ron Beyer
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
            $endgroup$
            – T.J. Crowder
            18 mins ago
















          $begingroup$
          Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
          $endgroup$
          – Phil Miller
          11 hours ago





          $begingroup$
          Thanks. To be clear, 737 Classic are the -4/5/600 set, right?
          $endgroup$
          – Phil Miller
          11 hours ago













          $begingroup$
          @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
          $endgroup$
          – Ron Beyer
          10 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @PhilMiller The 737 "Classic" is the 300/400/500 series.The -600/700/800/900 is the NG.
          $endgroup$
          – Ron Beyer
          10 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
          $endgroup$
          – T.J. Crowder
          18 mins ago





          $begingroup$
          I suspect "...tank interting requirements..." is a typo, but I can't figure out what word it should be. (Searches a bit.) "inerting"?
          $endgroup$
          – T.J. Crowder
          18 mins ago











          Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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          Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












          Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











          Phil Miller is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














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