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Is this a submanifold?


When is a conjugacy class of matrices an embedded submanifold?Finding covariant derivative of a riemanian submanifoldTotally geodesic submanifold of round spherepositive sectional curvature of submanifold in $R^n$?Distance function to a submanifoldTotally geodesic submanifold of a hyperbolic 3-manifoldSmoothness of the closest point on a submanifoldFundamental group of compact manifolds with non-negative Ricci curvature and Bieberbach theoremClosest point of one SO(3) submanifold onto another submanifoldCodimension reduction for developable Euclidean submanifold













1












$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrmIso(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := (p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_TMleft((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^-1(0) = (p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X).$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_gin Geta_g^-1(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    45 mins ago















1












$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrmIso(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := (p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_TMleft((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^-1(0) = (p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X).$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_gin Geta_g^-1(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    45 mins ago













1












1








1


1



$begingroup$


Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrmIso(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := (p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_TMleft((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^-1(0) = (p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X).$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_gin Geta_g^-1(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $(M,g)$ be a compact Riemannian manifold with an isometric action $rho : G to mathrmIso(M)$ by a compact Lie group $G$. There is a natural extension of $rho$ to $TM$ given by:
$$psi : G times TM to TM$$
$$psi(g,p,X) := (rho(g)p,drho(g)X).$$



I would like to know if the set:
$$TM supset tilde S := (p,X) in TM : G_X = G_p$$ is a submanifold of $TM$, and further, if $pi : TM to M$ is the natural projection, then $pi(tilde S)$ is a submanifold of $M$.



I tried the following approach:



For each $gin G$ consider $eta_g(p,X) equiv eta(g,p,X) := d^2_TMleft((p,X),psi(g,p,X)right).$ Then, one has:
$$eta_g^-1(0) = (p,X) :(rho(g)p,drho(g)X) = (p,X).$$
So,
$$tilde S = bigcup_gin Geta_g^-1(0). $$



But according to my calculation $0$ is not a regular value of $eta_g$.



I appreciate any help.







dg.differential-geometry riemannian-geometry differential-topology group-actions






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









Ali Taghavi

9152084




9152084










asked 5 hours ago









L.F. CavenaghiL.F. Cavenaghi

598213




598213











  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    45 mins ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Is this a pigeon? ;-)
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It's a meme, meant in good humour.
    $endgroup$
    – David Roberts
    45 mins ago















$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Is this a pigeon? ;-)
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@DavidRoberts, I am sorry, what are you asking if it is a pigeon?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago




1




1




$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
45 mins ago




$begingroup$
It's a meme, meant in good humour.
$endgroup$
– David Roberts
45 mins ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbbZ/2mathbbZ$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus p,q) cup p_0,q_0$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    27 mins ago


















1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_pin M TM_p^G_p. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^G_p$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminusn,s)cup n,s$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    29 mins ago











Your Answer





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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbbZ/2mathbbZ$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus p,q) cup p_0,q_0$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    27 mins ago















2












$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbbZ/2mathbbZ$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus p,q) cup p_0,q_0$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    27 mins ago













2












2








2





$begingroup$

For the obvious reflection action of $mathbbZ/2mathbbZ$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus p,q) cup p_0,q_0$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



For the obvious reflection action of $mathbbZ/2mathbbZ$ on $S^1$ this set $tilde S $ has two singular points at the zero vectors tangent at points $p=(1,0)$ and $q=(-1,0)$.
Then $tilde S$ is $T(S^1setminus p,q) cup p_0,q_0$ where $p_0, q_0$ are zero vectors at $p,q$. This is a connected set and after removing $p_0,q_0$ we obtain a disconnected set. So obviously it is not a manifold because every connected manifold of dimension at least $2$, remains connected after removing a finite set.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 3 hours ago









Ali TaghaviAli Taghavi

9152084




9152084







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    27 mins ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
    $endgroup$
    – Arun Debray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
    $endgroup$
    – Ali Taghavi
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    27 mins ago







1




1




$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
"every connected manifold remains connected after removing a finite set" -- this is not true for 1-dimensional manifolds. Nonetheless, your example is valid: if $x$ is one of the fixed points of the reflection action, then a neighborhood of $(x,0)intilde S$ is homeomorphic to $mathbb R^2$ minus the coordinate axes but including the origin, so it cannot be a manifold.
$endgroup$
– Arun Debray
2 hours ago












$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@ArunDebray yes thank you but $tilde S $ is 2 dimensional at generic points. I revise the answer. Thanks again for your correction!
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, thank you very much. Do you know if one can restrict some hypothesis in order to obtain a manifold? Or, what kind of structure this set has?
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
You are well come. What about if we assume $G$ is connected? I am not sure what is the answer in this case.
$endgroup$
– Ali Taghavi
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
27 mins ago




$begingroup$
@AliTaghavi, take a look to the other answer and possible on the comments. I changed a little the problem.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
27 mins ago











1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_pin M TM_p^G_p. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^G_p$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminusn,s)cup n,s$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    29 mins ago
















1












$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_pin M TM_p^G_p. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^G_p$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminusn,s)cup n,s$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    29 mins ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$

Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_pin M TM_p^G_p. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^G_p$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminusn,s)cup n,s$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Your definition implies that
$$ tilde S = bigcup_pin M TM_p^G_p. $$
In particular, $pi(tilde S) = M$, and $tilde S$ will be a submanifold of $TM$ iff the dimension of $TM_p^G_p$ is the same for all $pin M$.



$G$ being connected won't necessarily make this happen: Another counterexample is $S^1$ acting by rotation on $S^2$, fixing the north and south poles, $n$ and $s$. $tilde S$ is then $T(S^2setminusn,s)cup n,s$, and the points $n$ and $s$ do not have neighborhoods homeomorphic to open balls.







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answered 41 mins ago









Steve CostenobleSteve Costenoble

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  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    29 mins ago

















  • $begingroup$
    what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
    $endgroup$
    – L.F. Cavenaghi
    29 mins ago
















$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
29 mins ago





$begingroup$
what if we change a little bit my definition by asking the following: $S = p in M : exists 0 neq X in mathcal H_p subset T_pM : G_X = G_p$? Now I ask if such $S$ is a submanifold of $M$, where $cal H_p$ is the space $g$-orthogonal to $T_pGcdot p$.
$endgroup$
– L.F. Cavenaghi
29 mins ago


















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